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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-18 12:17 pm 
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Segrus wrote:
I guess I'm just afraid of Galina creating some feel-bad problems since she's so blatant with her strategy; she basically reads "Gain control of target commander," especially when my aim is lower level play. And that also incites people to target the Galina player before they even become a threat.

Correct. Which is why you shouldn't pack the blue deck with steal, especially if you're doing low-power decks. "I just take all the best things from everyone".dec is always going to be the first punching bag, whether it's the commander doing it or the cards in the deck. That crap is annoying.

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-18 1:17 pm 
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Sid the Chicken wrote:
Segrus wrote:
I guess I'm just afraid of Galina creating some feel-bad problems since she's so blatant with her strategy; she basically reads "Gain control of target commander," especially when my aim is lower level play. And that also incites people to target the Galina player before they even become a threat.

Correct. Which is why you shouldn't pack the blue deck with steal, especially if you're doing low-power decks. "I just take all the best things from everyone".dec is always going to be the first punching bag, whether it's the commander doing it or the cards in the deck. That crap is annoying.

The purpose wouldn't be to pack the deck, but use as a supplement. I'm also pretty confident that most "steal all the things" strategies don't generally work without being a secondary strategy (or just a full-blown combo deck). So I wouldn't be packing anything into anything unless I was sure I wanted to heavily commit to it.

Stealing stuff not only goes along with Thada Adel's effect, it's also a primarily Blue effect (meaning none of the other decks would have it) and would help this Blue deck fight against the aggro superiority of the other decks' strategies.

Right now, this Merfolk deck is the weakest of the other ones I've built, so I need to give it something so it can keep up.

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-19 7:58 am 
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Segrus wrote:
Any other expensive ones you were thinking about?


Treachery. Expropriate. Like you said though, I'm not sure they're a good fit for the meta you're building.

Seasinger's cheap and on theme though. Hypnotic Siren's not a merfolk, but it's at sea creature at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-19 9:31 am 
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Kemev wrote:
Segrus wrote:
Any other expensive ones you were thinking about?


Treachery. Expropriate. Like you said though, I'm not sure they're a good fit for the meta you're building.

Seasinger's cheap and on theme though. Hypnotic Siren's not a merfolk, but it's at sea creature at least.

I'm really thinking like 5 or so effects--I think the meta would be just fine with that many. I've thought about the more expensive options, which would be really cool to see play, but I don't need them necessarily. I'm thinking about Mind Harness, Control Magic, Abduction, Volition Reins, and possibly Legacy's Allure. Domestication, Spirit Away, Welcome to the Fold, and False Demise are other ones I considered from what I was able to easily find in my collection.

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-19 10:30 am 
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Here's a list for consideration, depending on availability or direction for the deck.

Seasinger (with things like Streambed Aquitects to give islands or exchange lands)
Overtaker
Rootwater Matriarch (good with things like Infiltrator's Magemark









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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-21 11:21 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
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Treamayne, thanks for the suggestions. A lot of these are ones I looked into or looked for in my collection since I own most of them already. I wasn't sure I was convinced on exchange control cards, since it somewhat negates the point of having a tribal deck (or in other words diminishes the value of running a bunch of creatures who work well together). I've been fairly diligent in giving the Green and White decks ample access to artifact/enchantment destruction, so I'm leaning more towards enchantment-based gain control effects rather than those from the Gain Control EoT section.

I also already have Clone Legion and Followed Footsteps in the deck, so I did consider those earlier before I hovered towards true theft effects. I think I'm going to go with what I have listed before and see how it works out. Again, thanks.

Still happy to hear more thoughts about the direction of this build.

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-23 9:57 am 
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Segrus wrote:
Treamayne, thanks for the suggestions.


No Worries

Segrus wrote:
I wasn't sure I was convinced on exchange control cards, since it somewhat negates the point of having a tribal deck (or in other words diminishes the value of running a bunch of creatures who work well together).


The reasons behind the exchange control suggestions:
- Exchange control is less off-putting than outright theft (since nobody has "lost" something)
- Tribal is my specialty, I already considered that restriction.

- Political Trickery - Give them an Island (Island walk, islandhome, etc.) and gain a utility land...tribal friendly even.
- Eyes Everywhere - mostly good for the scry 1, but you can swipe something if you need to and if they aren't playing U, they can't trade back. You don't have to give a up a merfolk to do so.
- Legerdemain - Mostly for trading a mana rock for a true artifact threat mid-late game, but also a chance at a creature if really needed - "here's have my merfolk token for your <threat>"
- Puca's Mischief - Repeatable swaps, where you never *have* to give up a merfolk, even if you are taking their creatures.
- Cultural Exchange - it does not say you have to be one of the players changing creatures. Wink Wink Nudge Nudge

Segrus wrote:
I've been fairly diligent in giving the Green and White decks ample access to artifact/enchantment destruction, so I'm leaning more towards enchantment-based gain control effects rather than those from the Gain Control EoT section.


The EoT section is more about protection in the combat step by borrowing a creature than truly stealing it. I only included them because you implied you did not want to cross the line into "annoying theft" (drawing ire). It was just a thought.

Hope that helps

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-23 10:36 pm 
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I hear you, and I appreciate the effort you spent in picking cards. My plan is to go with what I have and then come back to the drawing board. I think until I see the deck in action again, I won't be able to be sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-21 10:50 pm 
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I'm still somewhat holding out hope I'll feel satisfied with mono-Blue Merfolk working at some point, but for now I'm going to try out Blue Thopters/Artifacts under Sai, Master Thopterist and see how it goes. I considered trying out Blue Wizards, because I have nearly all the cards for it already, but I couldn't really think of a way to do Wizards without it being some kind of obscene combo deck. Thopters won't be as thematically impactful as Merfolk or Wizards--in terms of being easily identifiable as a fantasy race--but the deck has a lot of depth in terms of strategy, redundancy, and recovery. And I had nearly all the cards I wanted for the deck outside of Sai himself.

I guess we'll see how it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-22 2:19 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
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Segrus wrote:
I'm still somewhat holding out hope I'll feel satisfied with mono-Blue Merfolk working at some point, but for now I'm going to try out Blue Thopters/Artifacts under Sai, Master Thopterist and see how it goes. I considered trying out Blue Wizards, because I have nearly all the cards for it already, but I couldn't really think of a way to do Wizards without it being some kind of obscene combo deck. Thopters won't be as thematically impactful as Merfolk or Wizards--in terms of being easily identifiable as a fantasy race--but the deck has a lot of depth in terms of strategy, redundancy, and recovery. And I had nearly all the cards I wanted for the deck outside of Sai himself.

I guess we'll see how it goes.


I built a Naban mill deck for a friend recently that is good but not really combo. Just a mess of draw, selection, bounce, and mill effects.

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-22 12:24 pm 
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Spectrar Ghost wrote:
I built a Naban mill deck for a friend recently that is good but not really combo. Just a mess of draw, selection, bounce, and mill effects.

Okay, I'll bite--still have a decklist around somewhere?

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-22 1:23 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
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Segrus wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
I built a Naban mill deck for a friend recently that is good but not really combo. Just a mess of draw, selection, bounce, and mill effects.

Okay, I'll bite--still have a decklist around somewhere?


Creatures:34
1 Naban, Dean of Iteration: Commander
1 Drowner Initiate
1 Faerie Seer
1 Hedron Crab
1 Harbinger of the Tides
1 Manic Scribe
1 Merfolk Trickster
1 Omenspeaker
1 Sage's Row Savant
1 Stern Proctor
1 Vedalken AEthermage
1 AEther Adept
1 Ambassador Laquatus
1 Aphetto Grifter
1 Cloudkin Seer
1 Merchant of Secrets
1 Portal Mage
1 Riddlekeeper
1 Sage's Row Denizen
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Trinket Mage
1 Archaeomancer
1 Naru Meha, Master Wizard
1 Riverwise Augur
1 Separatist Voidmage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Tempest Caller
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Docent of Perfection
1 Pondering Mage
1 Salvager of Secrets
1 Supreme Inquisitor
1 Voidwielder
1 Galecaster Colossus

Artifacts:6
1 Altar of the Brood
1 Sol Ring
1 Mindcrank
1 Crystal Shard
1 Unstable Obelisk
1 Panharmonicon

Sorceries:9
1 Increasing Confusion
1 Stream of Thought
1 Tome Scour
1 Compelling Argument
1 Mind Sculpt
1 Distorting Wake
1 Startled Awake
1 AEther Gale
1 Traumatize

Instants:11
1 Dream Twist
1 Thought Scour
1 Blink of an Eye
1 Dampen Thought
1 Into the Roil
1 Winds of Rebuke
1 Regress
1 Rescind
1 Whir of Invention
1 AEtherize
1 Psychic Spiral

Enchantments:3
1 Jace's Erasure
1 Memory Erosion
1 Back from the Brink

Lands:37
1 Desert of the Mindful
1 Halimar Depths
32 Island
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Remote Isle
1 Riptide Laboratory

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Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-23 2:57 am 
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Nice. Have you seen the deck in action? (Only ask since you said you made it for a friend.)
Milling out 3 or more decks is normally really difficult without combo. Also feels like Cloudstone Curio would fit in well here.

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-23 3:22 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
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Cloudstone Curio didn’t fit the budget. I’d add that, and probably Helm of the Host.

I’ve seen it played a few times, and borrowed it once. It certainly can win, but it’s not going to have a rate >25%. It really is fun to pilot though, there are a ton of small decision points that have real impact.

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 Post subject: Re: Mono Blue Tribal Merfolk
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-23 10:21 pm 
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Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Cloudstone Curio didn’t fit the budget. I’d add that, and probably Helm of the Host.

I’ve seen it played a few times, and borrowed it once. It certainly can win, but it’s not going to have a rate >25%. It really is fun to pilot though, there are a ton of small decision points that have real impact.

Yeah, I'm not on the lookout for a high win percentage, so that's fine. The premise behind all of this are mono-colored, tribal Commander decks for beginner level players. So my goal is only to make sure everyone feels like they have a chance for winning and Merfolk just wasn't cutting it in my opinion. Thank you for taking the time to get the decklist and explain a little.

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