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 Post subject: Shu Yun, Tactician
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-31 4:07 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
My Yasova plan had been to manipulate combat to my advantage, but I'm starting to realize that that scheme works far better when both white and red are available (e.g. Master Warcraft, Boros Battleshaper). I haven't found anything in Boros that appeals to me (with or without Endless Atlas helping out), but Jeskai does have someone in Shu Yun, with his double strike granting. Admittedly, this isn't the usual spellslinger setup, so EDHRec probably isn't going to be that helpful in card recommendation.

Note that the deck is overloaded at 110 cards including Shu Yun. Definitely need to do some weeding...

COMMANDER
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest

CREATURES (33)
Angelic Skirmisher
Archon of the Triumvirate
Assembled Alphas
Bloodwater Entity
Boros Battleshaper
Boros Reckoner
Captivating Crew
Conquering Manticore
Dack's Duplicate
Daxos of Meletis
Dominus of Fealty
Duergar Hedge-Mage
Forgestoker Dragon
Frost Titan
Galepowder Mage
General Jarkeld
Haazda Snare Squad
Icefall Regent
Identity Thief (remember that the creature copied is no longer there to block...)
Iroas, God of Victory
Jhessian Balmgiver
Molten Primordial
New Prahv Guildmage
Odric, Master Tactician
Protean Raider
Reflector Mage
Sage-Eye Avengers
Serendib Sorcerer
Skymark Roc
Soltari Guerrillas
Soltari Visionary
Sower of Temptation
Urabrask the Hidden

ENCHANTMENTS (12)
Bident of Thassa
Brave the Sands
Close Quarters
Collective Restraint
Curse of Inertia
Gleam of Battle
Invasion Plans
Knighthood
Martial Law
Military Intelligence
Sigil of the New Dawn
Stand or Fall

ARTIFACTS (8)
Commander's Sphere
Edifice of Authority
Grappling Hook
Sol Ring
Sunforger
Sword of Feast and Famine
The Immortal Sun
Vorrac Battlehorns

SORCERIES (4)
Mystic Retrieval
Nightbird's Clutches
Sleep
Supreme Verdict

INSTANTS (15)
Act of Aggression
Azorius Charm
Boros Charm
Chemister's Trick
Counterflux
Deflecting Palm
Essence Backlash
Incite War
Intimidation Bolt
Master Warcraft
Mindswipe
Orim's Chant
Render Silent
Shattering Blow
Valorous Stance

LANDS (38)
Mountain*7
Plains*6
Island*6
Cascade Bluffs
Clifftop Retreat
Command Tower
Glacial Fortress
Hallowed Fountain
Mistveil Plains
Mystic Gate
Mystic Monastery
Rugged Prairie
Sacred Foundry
Slayers' Stronghold
Steam Vents
Sulfur Falls
Temple of Enlightenment
Temple of Epiphany
Temple of Triumph
Temple of the False God
Thran Quarry
Windbrisk Heights

One thing I already note: There might be slightly overmuch in stealing effects (e.g. Molten Primordial), probably from thinking of the Yasova iteration.


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 Post subject: Re: Shu Yun, Tactician
AgePosted: 2018-Aug-08 3:38 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-19 12:15 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Sacramento, CA
I've never built Shu Yun, but I imagine you'd want cheap spells with buyback or rebound, and enchantments that you can return to your hand and recast.

Recommend:

Creatures
Figure of Destiny
Serra Ascendant
Sun Titan
Weathered Wayfarer

Enchantments
Land Tax

Instants
Mystic Confluence
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries
Austere Command - this is an all star

Also, I like that you included Soltari Visionary and Soltari Guerillas.

_________________
Current Decks:
Bruse Tarl / Kraum, Ludevic's Opus
Marchesa, the Black Rose
Mayael the Anima


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 Post subject: Re: Shu Yun, Tactician
AgePosted: 2018-Aug-14 9:03 pm 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
So, there a couple things I think hold this build back significantly

I. Too Many Dudes
Shu likes non-dude spells, a creature count of around 20-22 will give you the aggression you need to create threatening board states- but also not deaden your draws to stop Shu from accessing his Double Strike option. With Flayer Husk or token generating spells (hello Secure the Wastes and Timely Reinforcements), you can activate Shu's doublestrike while also creating board presence to build up your overall pressure.

In particular, I think this deck wants to lower the cost of it's creatures to mostly be 1-3 drops, and things like Balefire Liege and Lavinia of the Tenth/Hixus, Prison Warden to compliment your Boros Battleshaper for super oompf. Speaking of 3 drop dudes, where is Lyev Skyknight? That guy is amazing- and a cool namesake for a forum handle :) Other notable things I would seek out for this build are Grim Lavamancer (super underrated, but very real in EDH-) and Cloudblazer/Mulldrifter- because card advantage in a deck that wants every Coastal Piracy trick it can grab. Jhessian Thief, Jeskai Infiltrator, and Jeskai Elder all provide pretty fantastic redundancy for trying to hunker down on an Infiltrator strategy (which is perfect for Shu and co. because the deck wants to play mostly small dudes and only a few high impact large guys.)

II. Shu is Mana Hungry

While, I won't necessarily say "run moar rocks"- there are plenty of great tools to help you fix your hand with land-drops while being cheap enough to reasonably use them as Shu enablers. Wayfarer's Bauble, Armillary Sphere, and Thaumatic Compass come to mind. In UW decks in particular, I find that it's far better to fix for making a land drop every turn than to worry about explosive ramping.

A very important thing to keep in mind about 3 color decks is the mana weight of each spell. Things with UU, RR, and WW might not be difficult to play individually but can lock you out of more flexible lines of play turn after turn. Often in 3c, without a hardcore fixing tool that doesn't get disrupted, UUU/RRR/WWW can eat up an entire turn on it's own. A simple way around this, is to look for cards with hybrid costs that do similar things to some of the cards you are playing, or look for spells which might have more generic mana in their costs, but lighter weights (Captivating Crew is a great choice in this line of thought on your part.) With this in mind, I'd think about shaving many of the Gold cards for similar (even if they are weaker) effects in their respective mono colors, with only a single color weight attached to it (combined with playing a larger number of cheap creatures and spells, this adds up quickly.)

III. Gas

Deep Analysis, Think Twice, Desperate Ravings, Survival Cache, Oblation, Amass the Components, and Windfall should help you keep your hand flush- assuming you might not be fond of the usual suspects like Treasure Cruise

With all of those things in mind- the deck should come together fairly naturally :) Look forward to seeing where this goes.

_________________
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Wall of chat exceeds at using a lot of words to mischaracterize opposing view points.

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 Post subject: Re: Shu Yun, Tactician
AgePosted: 2018-Aug-21 4:37 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
I will confess that Shu Yun was more "the best we can currently do in RWU" than anything else. Numot was close, but I understand land destruction, especially on his scale, is not terribly liked in general in Commander. He doesn't really sway combat, anyway. What I'd really like is a commander that grants all your creatures provoke, although they'd probably be RW or RGW.

That said, I'd already condensed the deck down to 100 before I checked back in here. (Sorry, but I took out the Soltari. They're still in the maybeboard, though.)

https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/shu-yun-tactician/

So of course, I've adjusted the deck according to the advice proffered here on MTGManager, with this result:

COMMANDER:

Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest

CREATURES (22):

Archon of the Triumvirate
Balefire Liege
Boros Battleshaper
Boros Reckoner
Captivating Crew
Dack's Duplicate
Forgestoker Dragon
Frost Titan
Galepowder Mage
General Jarkeld
Identity Thief
Iroas, God of Victory
Jhessian Balmgiver
Jhessian Thief
Lavinia of the Tenth
Lyev Skyknight (note: I actually drew my alias from Kjeldoran Skyknight, long before even original Ravnica)
Odric, Master Tactician
Protean Raider
Sage-Eye Avengers
Serendib Sorcerer
Skymark Roc
Warden of the Eye

ENCHANTMENTS (10):

Bident of Thassa
Brave the Sands
Close Quarters
Fight or Flight
Invasion Plans
Knighthood
Martial Law
Military Intelligence
Octopus Umbra
Stand or Fall

ARTIFACTS (11):

Armillary Sphere
Commander's Sphere
Edifice of Authority
Grappling Hook
Sol Ring
Sunforger
Sword of Feast and Famine
Thaumatic Compass
The Immortal Sun
Vorrac Battlehorns
Wayfarer's Bauble

SORCERIES (5):

Amass the Components
Deep Analysis
Mystic Retrieval
Nightbird's Clutches
Supreme Verdict

INSTANTS (14):

Act of Aggression
Azorius Charm
Boros Charm
Chemister's Trick
Counterflux
Deflecting Palm
Essence Backlash
Incite War
Intimidation Bolt
Master Warcraft
Orim's Chant
Render Silent
Shattering Blow
Valorous Stance

LANDS (37):

Mountain*6
Plains*6
Island*6
Cascade Bluffs
Clifftop Retreat
Command Tower
Glacial Fortress
Hallowed Fountain
Mistveil Plains
Mystic Gate
Mystic Monastery
Rugged Prairie
Sacred Foundry
Slayers' Stronghold
Steam Vents
Sulfur Falls
Temple of Enlightenment
Temple of Epiphany
Temple of Triumph
Temple of the False God
Thran Quarry
Windbrisk Heights

Given that I have several EtB effects, I think I'd also like a way to jam Cloudstone Curio in here. Not to mention, I wonder if I should find a way to put Gleam of Battle back in.

Fight or Flight is something I overlooked at first (no surprise; I was originally planning URG, after all, so I would have not considered it at all then), and may work as a replacement for Collective Restraint. The problem is that it affects every opponent attack, whether or not you're the defender; I'm not sure how quickly the opposition would tire of having to check with me on who can attack every turn.

Looking at your advice, it seems I'm still burdened with too high an average CMC for my critters. The problem is figuring out who to pull (e.g. Archon of the Triumvirate is, despite its immense cost, a strong detainer). Possibly General Jarkeld, whose effect opponents will definitely see coming (well, at least when I'm the one attacking. Note that Jarkeld can mess around when one opponent attacks another...).


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 Post subject: Re: Shu Yun, Tactician
AgePosted: 2018-Aug-26 5:46 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
(Ha, figures that I’d only remember Sun Titan and Swords to Plowshares from the first response...)

The TappedOut link now has a highly edited, mostly in the creature department, list. I will admit I haven’t figured out what to take out for Sun Titan yet. I also decided against Fight or Flight in favor of Propaganda.

I am wondering if Relentless Raptor is actually a good pick, despite having good bulk for its cost. It might be prone to getting itself killed if Invasion Plans or the like aren’t on the field...


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 Post subject: Re: Shu Yun, Tactician
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-28 7:37 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Adjusted for GRN.

This post will contain the up-to-date chart. Details of further edits will be in successive posts.

COMMANDER:

Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest

CREATURES (22):

Archon of the Triumvirate
Augury Adept
Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice
Balefire Liege
Bloodwater Entity
Boros Battleshaper
Boros Reckoner
Captivating Crew
Forgestoker Dragon
Identity Thief
Iroas, God of Victory
Jhessian Balmgiver
Jhessian Thief
Lavinia of the Tenth
Lyev Skyknight (note: I actually drew my alias from Kjeldoran Skyknight, long before even original Ravnica)
Odric, Master Tactician
Protean Raider
Sage-Eye Avengers
Serendib Sorcerer
Sigiled Skink
Warden of the Eye
Warkite Marauder

ENCHANTMENTS (10):

Bident of Thassa
Brave the Sands
Close Quarters
Ghostly Prison
Gleam of Battle
Invasion Plans
Knighthood
Martial Law
Military Intelligence
Stand or Fall

ARTIFACTS (11):

Armillary Sphere
Commander's Sphere
Edifice of Authority
Forebear's Blade
Grappling Hook
Sol Ring
Sword of Feast and Famine
Thaumatic Compass
The Immortal Sun
Vorrac Battlehorns
Wayfarer's Bauble

SORCERIES (5):

Amass the Components
Deep Analysis
Mystic Retrieval
Nightbird's Clutches
Seething Anger

INSTANTS (14):

Azorius Charm
Boros Charm
Chemister's Trick
Counterflux
Deflecting Palm
Essence Backlash
Incite War
Master Warcraft
Orim's Chant
Render Silent
Response // Resurgence
Shattering Blow
Swords to Plowshares
Valorous Stance

LANDS (37):

Mountain*5
Plains*6
Island*7
Cascade Bluffs
Clifftop Retreat
Command Tower
Exotic Orchard
Glacial Fortress
Hallowed Fountain
Mystic Gate
Mystic Monastery
Rugged Prairie
Sacred Foundry
Slayers' Stronghold
Steam Vents
Sulfur Falls
Temple of Enlightenment
Temple of Epiphany
Temple of the False God
Temple of Triumph
Thran Quarry
Windbrisk Heights


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 Post subject: Re: Shu Yun, Tactician
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-04 5:57 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
OUT:
Frost Titan
Octopus Umbra (more of a casualty to my determination to get the colors in the mana costs perfectly balanced, than anything else...)
Propaganda
Truefire Captain

IN:
Boros Reckoner
Essence Backlash
Forgestoker Dragon
Ghostly Prison


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 Post subject: Re: Shu Yun, Tactician
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-20 10:36 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Now that Feather, the Redeemed has been unveiled, I'm wondering if I should rework the strategy to vector her and various heroic creatures (e.g. Akroan Conscriptor, Artisan of Forms) in. The sticky bit would be vectoring in more sorceries/instants at the expense of enchantments, obviously. Still, this would let me manipulate blockers and play combat tricks with a lot less of the usual ephemerality. Sounds like the ultimate combat manipulator, then.

Just a matter of whether this would be depending too much on Feather herself.


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