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 Post subject: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-19 10:30 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
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Commander
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds

Mana Dorks/Doublers
Birds of Paradise
Elvish Mystic
Fyndhorn Elves
Llanowar Elves
Sylvan Caryatid
Priest of Titania
Elvish Archdruid
Karametra's Acolyte
Burgeoning
Mana Reflection
Sol Ring

Untap Effects
Quirion Ranger
Wirewood Symbiote
Scryb Ranger
Seeker of Skybreak
Voyaging Satyr
Temur Sabertooth
Seedborn Muse
Patron of the Orochi
Instill Energy
Nature's Chosen
Quest for Renewal
Magewright's Stone
Staff of Domination
Thousand-Year Elixir
Paradox Engine

Mana Sinks
Omnath, Locus of Mana
Chameleon Colossus
Polukranos, World Eater
Wren's Run Packmaster
Heroes' Bane
Yew Spirit
Hydra Broodmaster

Trample Enablers
Nylea, God of the Hunt
Pathbreaker Ibex
Thunderfoot Baloth
Overwhelming Stampede
Primal Rage

Haste Enablers
Surrak, the Hunt Caller
Concordant Crossroads

Draw Effects
Garruk's Packleader
Regal Force
Momentous Fall
Life's Legacy
Genesis Wave
Shamanic Revelation
Collective Unconscious
Rishkar's Expertise
Lifecrafter's Bestiary

Access and Selection
Ulvenwald Hydra
Crop Rotation
Green Sun's Zenith
Sylvan Scrying
Eldritch Evolution
Natural Order

Other
Predator's Rapport
Hurricane
Fungal Sprouting
Asceticism
Death's Presence
Feed the Pack

Lands
Deserted Temple
33 Forest
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Rogue's Passage
Wirewood Lodge
Yavimaya Hollow

This is currently my strongest deck, and is perfectly capable of comboing off by T5. The game plan is to get Selvala, some untap effects, and a mana sink (preferably Omnath or Hero’s Bane) into the same room, and watch the fun. There’s tutors and draw spells to get missing components, Haste and Trample enablers to make the kill easier, and some assorted utility effects.

A sample game might look like this.

T1
Play Forest.
Tap Forest for G, cast Llanowar Elves.
T2
Play Wirewood Lodge.
Tap Forest, Wirewood Lodge, Llanowar Elves for 1GG, cast Selvala.
T3
Play Forest.
Tap 2x Forest, Llanowar Elves, Wirewood Lodge for 1GGG. Pay G to Selvala for GG (1GGGG floating), cast Hero’s Bane (4/4).
T4
Tap Llanowar Elves for G, cast Quirion Ranger.
Tap Forest for G. Pay G to Selvala for GGGG, double Hero’s Bane for 2GG (8/8)
Return tapped Forest to hand with Quirion Ranger to untap Selvala.
Tap Forest for G.Pay G to Selvala for 8 green, double Hero’s Bane for 2GG (16/16) (4 green floating)
G from floating to Wirewood Lodge to untap Selvala. (3 green floating)
G from floating to Selvala for 16 green. Double heroes bane 3 times for 6 generic and 6 green (128/128). (6 green floating)
1G from floating to cast Primal Rage, 3G from floating to cast Fungal Sprouting, creating 128 1/1 Saprolings. (0 floating)
Attack for lethal against an opponent, then continue around the table as neccessary.

Note that I assume the T4 lad drop is missed, and casting the Quirion Ranger T1 would only move the game back by one turn, with an opportunity to cast, say, Priest of Titania on T2.

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Antis wrote:
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Last edited by Spectrar Ghost on 2018-Oct-20 9:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - please don't tap that again.
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-20 5:19 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
After some more goldfishing, I may just set this deck aside as an example of What Not To Do.

Having a 274,877,906,944/274,877,906,944 Hero's Bane and casting Fungal Sprouting on it (on T7) is maybe not the game I want to play.

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Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - please don't tap that again.
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-25 2:05 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Having a 274,877,906,944/274,877,906,944 Hero's Bane and casting Fungal Sprouting on it (on T7) is maybe not the game I want to play.
That's friggin' awesome. I respect your self restraint but that seems fair to me, even for my casual, anti-combo playgroup.

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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - please don't tap that again.
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-25 5:39 am 
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Joined: 2013-May-29 9:57 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Atlanta, GA
thaumaturge wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Having a 274,877,906,944/274,877,906,944 Hero's Bane and casting Fungal Sprouting on it (on T7) is maybe not the game I want to play.
That's friggin' awesome. I respect your self restraint but that seems fair to me, even for my casual, anti-combo playgroup.

Depends on the consistency, I think. And judging by the decklist, it seems consistency won't be an issue, with several redundant combo pieces and engines.

At the same time, I'm not sure goldfishing does the deck justice. I think it's worth testing how well the deck stands up to disruption and removal, which at this point seems like it could swing either way. Maybe try to proxy the deck with the playgroup, see how it holds up.

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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-25 6:16 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
Maybe Asceticism, Archetype of Endurance and/or Spearbreaker Behemoth to protect your creatures? Last two work with Selvala, too.

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Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-25 6:26 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I've added Asceticism, but not updated the list. Current foci for improvement are resiliency and consistency., both of which were negected in the first draft. Will get my first real games in tonight.

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Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-25 7:00 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
I've added Asceticism, but not updated the list. Current foci for improvement are resiliency and consistency., both of which were negected in the first draft. Will get my first real games in tonight.

Do let us know how they go... I have a Yisan deck currently, with no infinite combos, and no Craterhoof Behemoth... figured that would be enough to tone it down for my group, and I figured being interacted with would also make a big difference... but so far my experience is, I tend to just goldfish Yisan even when there are three other players. My group does NOT shy away from removal, but the deck just doesn't seem to care much. I can handle Yisan dying once or twice, and the games don't last long enough for him to die more often than that.

Anyway, point being, my attempt to casual-ify Yisan is not a stellar success, and Selvala is the first Green Legend aside from Yisan that I find interesting, so I've been optimistic that I could swap over to Selvala and get the power level back down to where it fits my group better.

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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-20 7:52 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sorry about not replying to that - I assume you’ve discovered the answer by now. She’s nuts.

So I’ve been reading up on legacy elves, which seems to play in a similar manner to this deck from an untap effect point of view. The question came up: is Elvish Visionary good enough to include as part of the untap package on the off chance it’ll intersect with Wirewood Symbiote?

Edit- geez. I need to update the OP.

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Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-20 7:57 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
The question came up: is Elvish Visionary good enough to include as part of the untap package on the off chance it’ll intersect with Wirewood Symbiote?


100% Even if you don't get to bounce it, running out of cards while you are tapping for lots of mana is the quickest way to stop the chain. Beast Whisperer is also huge game (probably obvious I know).

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-20 8:07 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Yes, I need to locate one or more Beast Whisperers.

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Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-20 9:51 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
OP updated. No change log, because its extensive. Mostly i doubled down on the things the deck wanted to be doing.

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Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-21 10:29 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
One minor thing, I would without hesitation replace Sylvan Caryatid with either Arbor Elves or Boreal Druid. Sylvan does very little to help Selvala get out earlier, and it isn't an elf so it doesn't synergize with Priest, Archdruid, or the Packmaster.

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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-21 11:20 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
That’s probably correct.

Not sure why I ended up with the Caratyid, honestly. Maybe I wanted resiliency, so hexproof? Boreal was in there at one point. Probably I’ll end up with Arbor Elf so I can still play Selvala of a forest and a utility land.

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Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-22 4:16 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-19 12:15 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Sacramento, CA
If the deck plays like Legacy Elves, maybe you should try Glimpse of Nature.

Patron of the Orochi - seems expensive for the effect
Instill Energy - lets you get 2 for 1'd
Nature's Chosen - lets you get 2 for 1'd

If you remove some the redundant combo pieces and put in more reactive spells the deck would goldfish less and be more interactive. Beast Within and Krosan Grip come to mind first.

Also, Heroic Intervention could help you protect the combo.

I noticed you're playing Burgeoning but not Exploration or Azusa, Lost but Seeking or Oracle of Mul Daya or Wayward Swordtooth. Any reason?

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 Post subject: Re: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Please Don't Tap That Again
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-22 10:27 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Celerus wrote:
If the deck plays like Legacy Elves, maybe you should try Glimpse of Nature.

More than likely ill throw a couple Beast Whisperers onto my next order instead.
Quote:
Patron of the Orochi - seems expensive for the effect
Instill Energy - lets you get 2 for 1'd
Nature's Chosen - lets you get 2 for 1'd

Patron allows me to reset... almost everything. Selvala, Priest of Titania, Seeker of Skybreak, and similar. Just the Quirion Ranger and Wirewood Lodge types get missed. Also, by the time pay to double Hero’s Bane once, the untap pays for itself. As for the other two, I’m willing to risk it for one drops.
Quote:
If you remove some the redundant combo pieces and put in more reactive spells the deck would goldfish less and be more interactive. Beast Within and Krosan Grip come to mind first.

Also, Heroic Intervention could help you protect the combo.

At one level, the lack of reactive spells is a choice. I’m wary of playing a version of this deck that CAN protect itself effectively, because it’s already so blindingly fast and powerful. Passing turn on T5 with a 256/256 because no haste enablers are online and getting blown out by a Wrath is fine. On a different level, a deck that can and does combo off on T5 cares less about protecting itself than one playing for a long game.

That said, more interaction is often good in itself. I’ll have to see whether I feel I can work in a few spells. The two you mentioned would definitely be at the top of that list.
Quote:
I noticed you're playing Burgeoning but not Exploration or Azusa, Lost but Seeking or Oracle of Mul Daya or Wayward Swordtooth. Any reason?

Space, largely. The rest fell away due to not enough impact in the extreme early game where this deck likes to play. T1 Burgeoning is as good or better than a T1 Llanowar Elf, in terms of ramp. After Selvala hits the table, an extra land here or there won't even be noticeable.

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Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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