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 Post subject: Out and In v.2--Roon flickering (very much WIP)
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-09 10:38 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
After realizing just how little persist I actually had in the first version, I made a new Roon deck chart that didn't include Fanatical Devotion or Martyr's Cause. (I may find a way to get them back in, though, depending on what can be done with Sower of Temptation.) Icefall Regent has inspired me to at least consider making a lockdown deck with Roon, although that's probably easier said than done. There is some mix of flickering and recasting in here, probably because I feel that much attuned to Words of Wind (recasting) and Mystic Snake (works best when flickering) alike.

{sigh} Blasted fickleness...

Obligatory note: This has yet to go through any kind of playing. I am eyeing MTGO as a way to play without quite as much fuss over prices, though. (The $14 for Restoration Angel is still ridiculous for something not even physical. Not as bad as the $30 for Archangel of Thune, though.)

COMMANDER
Roon of the Hidden Realm

CREATURES (32)
Acidic Slime
Angel of Condemnation
Angel of Serenity
Archaeomancer
Azorius Justiciar
Brutalizer Exarch
Coiling Oracle
Diluvian Primordial (mana cost isn't as sticky as Chancellor of the Spires's)
Draining Whelk
Dungeon Geists
Ephara, God of the Polis
Eternal Witness
Fairgrounds Warden
Glen Elendra Archmage
Karmic Guide
Lavinia of the Tenth
Leonin Relic-Warder
Master Thief
Mistmeadow Witch
Mulldrifter
Mystic Snake
Ondu Giant
Progenitor Mimic
Reclamation Sage
Reflector Mage
Restoration Angel
Reveillark
Seedborn Muse
Soul of the Harvest
Sower of Temptation
Spike Weaver
Sunblast Angel
Wood Elves
Woodfall Primus

PLANESWALKER (2)
Nissa, Steward of Elements
Venser, the Sojourner

ENCHANTMENTS (5)
Aid from the Cowl
Aura Shards
Call for Unity
Gift of Immortality
Sunken Hope

ARTIFACTS (7)
Cauldron of Souls
Commander's Sphere
Conjurer's Closet
Panharmonicon
Sol Ring

SORCERIES (4)
Cultivate
Supreme Verdict
Urban Evolution

INSTANTS (11)
Acrobatic Maneuver
Bant Charm
Beast Within
Cloudshift
Eerie Interlude
Familiar's Ruse
Ghostly Flicker
Krosan Grip
Momentary Blink
Reincarnation
Swords to Plowshares
Sylvan Reclamation

LANDS (38)
7*Forest
7*Plains
5*Island
Alchemist's Refuge
Ancient Ziggurat
Breeding Pool
Command Tower
Flooded Grove
Glacial Fortress
Halimar Depths
Hallowed Fountain
Hinterland Harbor
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Mystic Gate
Seaside Citadel
Sunpetal Grove
Temple Garden
Temple of Enlightenment
Temple of Mystery
Temple of Plenty
Thran Quarry
Wooded Bastion

One of the main questions still is what other countermagic I can fit in here (no way are Draining Whelk, Mystic Snake, and Familiar's Ruse enough on their own for countering presence...But I need to avoid crowding everything else out...{grumble}).

EDIT: Of course I'd forget that your creatures generally aren't tapped unless you somehow flash Sunblast Angel in. And I'm not sure that's a contingency worth including a particular card around...

OUT: Brave the Sands
IN: Reflector Mage

EDIT 2: Disregard what I said about a lockdown deck. There just aren't enough EtB effects that do a reasonable lockdown effect (and none of them green; obviously better suited for a Brago deck plan than Roon, in any case). Well, at least reasonable-looking to me. Just tapping isn't enough; I want at least for it to be stuck that way the next turn.

EDIT 3: Removed Silverglade Elemental in favor of Strionic Resonator.

EDIT 4: I'm not sure how I managed to overlook Command Tower. Removed Eiganjo Castle in favor of it.


Last edited by Skyknight on 2017-Oct-31 8:47 am, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Out and In v.2--Roon flickering (very much WIP)
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-10 10:53 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
(I swear, I'll eventually decide which commander I want to use. For some reason, I can't decide between Roon and Jenara and Yasova and Rashmi and GRAAAHHH!)

OUT:
Cloud Key
Coalition Relic
Deadeye Navigator (probably a temporary thing while I figure out what can afford to be nixed; I was probably anticipating a ban which obviously never came)
Elgaud Shieldmate
Farhaven Elf
Ghostway
Loxodon Hierarch
Mosswort Bridge
Stonecloaker
Stonehorn Dignitary (another probable temporary removal)
Strionic Resonator
Supreme Verdict (I'm not sure Eerie Interlude is enough backup by itself)
Wargate
Wood Elves

IN:
Acrobatic Maneuver
Azorius Signet (although there might be a question whether the signets are merited with 38 lands...)
Coiling Oracle
Eerie Interlude
Great Oak Guardian
Hindering Light
Ondu Giant (quite a better deal for its mana than Farhaven Elf, and still fetchable by Reveillark)
Panharmonicon
Pathbreaker Wurm (I think I replaced the Shieldmate with this to fix up green's representation)
Phantom Centaur
Progenitor Mimic
Reveillark
Selesnya Signet
Simic Signet
Windbrisk Heights

As for Aether Revolt, I've found six cards of note: Aid from the Cowl, Call for Unity, Deadeye Harpooner, Heroic Intervention (possible replacement for Hindering Light), Illusionist's Stratagem, and Ridgescale Tusker. The first two of which are must-haves by my lights; it's just a matter, again, of finding space for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Out and In v.2--Roon flickering (very much WIP)
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-10 10:02 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
Roon might really like a lot of the Revolt cards coming out in the new set. Just a thought :D

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 Post subject: Re: Out and In v.2--Roon flickering (very much WIP)
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-11 4:55 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
OUT: Cathars' Crusade, Great Oak Guardian
IN: Call for Unity, Seedborn Muse

(I just hope I know what I'm doing about removing Cathars' Crusade; it interacts rather nicely with persist.)

I'm starting to feel uncertain about Words of Wind, whether it will cause as much tempo wreckage as I'd like. Not to mention that Cloudstone Curio is also around to allow recasting. Still, removing Words of Wind would be space for Aid from the Cowl, at least. Although I really must look into what my average casting cost is like.

EDIT: And now I'm feeling doubts over Phantom Centaur. On account of this, I decided to look up Bant-miscible creatures with EtB effects and CMC <= 3. The highlights: Court Hussar (although this one will NOT survive flickering), Deadeye Harpooner (which I was considering anyway), Elvish Pioneer, Fairgrounds Warden (replace Banisher Priest?), Farhaven Elf (replace Ondu Giant?), Knight of the White Orchid, Man-o'-War, Merfolk Traders/Vodalian Merchant, Oreskos Explorer, Selkie Hedge-Mage, Snapcaster Mage, Spell Queller, Stern Proctor, and Tidebinder Mage (I think it really unlikely that none of my opponents will be using red or green). Any thoughts on these?

EDIT 2:

OUT:
--Azorius Signet
--Banisher Priest
--Ghostly Flicker (it needs EXACTLY two targets, unlike Displace and Illusionist's Stratagem)
--Ondu Giant
--Phantom Centaur
--Riftwing Cloudskate
--Selesnya Signet
--Simic Signet
--Words of Wind

IN:
--Aid from the Cowl
--Commander's Sphere
--Darksteel Ingot
--Displace (may replace with Illusionist's Stratagem)
--Fairgrounds Warden
--Farhaven Elf
--Stern Proctor
--Sun Titan
--Sword of Light and Shadow


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 Post subject: Re: Out and In v.2--Roon flickering (very much WIP)
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-16 5:53 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Skyknight wrote:
--Ghostly Flicker (it needs EXACTLY two targets, unlike Displace and Illusionist's Stratagem)

I just want to point a few things out here;
1. Ghostly Flicker puts the creatures back into play under your control even if you stole them / they aren't yours., whereas Ill Strat will return them.
2. Ghostly Flicker does require 2 targets, but you can target your own artifacts and lands. That makes it extremely unlikely that you'll not have 2 targets, and if you only have 1 creature you want to blink you can effectively make the spell cheaper. Depending on what you're untapping you could be making it free or even netting mana.
3. It's 1 mana cheaper.

It's up to you to figure out whether those advantages are outweighed by "draw a card".

Also I posted in your other thread in the strategy forum, but I think you could use some extra answers to Torpor Orb, which seems like it would take a huge dump on your deck as is.

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 Post subject: Re: Out and In v.2--Roon flickering (very much WIP)
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-16 10:25 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
I was wondering what Swords to Plowshares, Sylvan Reclamation, and Beast Within were doing on the recommendations page...

OUT:
--Displace
--Lyev Skyknight (I've been on the fence with this regarding its fragility)
--Plains*1
--Stern Proctor
--Twilight Shepherd (I do feel a bit loath about removing a persist card, even with Cathars' Crusade gone, but at least this tempers white overreach...only now I have a little GREEN overreach. What does it take to keep all three colors perfectly balanced...?)

IN:
--Beast Within
--Forest*1
--Ghostly Flicker
--Krosan Grip
--Swords to Plowshares

And I can't shake the feeling that three cards isn't enough to deal with Torpor Orb/Hushwing Gryff threat...


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 Post subject: Re: Out and In v.2--Roon flickering (very much WIP)
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-16 2:48 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Skyknight wrote:
And I can't shake the feeling that three cards isn't enough to deal with Torpor Orb/Hushwing Gryff threat...

That comes down to how often you expect to see them. If you have a regular group and they start playing those cards more, then more answers will become necessary. Personally I run the orb in a few decks because they aren't terribly impacted by it and it solves a TON of problems, for instance... Roon decks.

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 Post subject: Re: Out and In v.2--Roon flickering (very much WIP)
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-17 9:52 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
If your meta crams their decks full of effects to shut down Roon, maybe Meddling Mage or Fracturing Gust is in order :)

Triskelion would be good to kill the gryph, as it's not an ETB, it just enters play with its counters.

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 Post subject: Re: Out and In v.2--Roon flickering (very much WIP)
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-28 8:58 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
OUT:
Darksteel Ingot
Deathrender (I'm no longer certain this will be the EtB-enabler/kill-dissuader I thought it might be)
Hindering Light
Miraculous Recovery (I think this was left over from my Jenara charting)
Pathbreaker Wurm (although I do wonder if it's finisher material, when paired with something sufficiently weighty)
Sun Titan (not sure enough of my permanents are recoverable by him)

IN:
Cloudblazer
Mistmeadow Witch
Nissa, Steward of Elements
Supreme Verdict
Words of Wind (I may be more interested in flickering than recasting, but I still think this looks good, especially considering how the repeatable flicker effects delay the return until the end step)

(Apparently, the last listing was over by one--I miscounted the artifacts.)

I am worried that this is starting to look like a typical Roon deck, without much to distinguish it from others. At least not completely--no sign of Cyclonic Rift (did this become a blue staple when I wasn't looking? I think EDHRec charted 40,000+ decks with it!) or Avenger of Zendikar, for starters.


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 Post subject: Re: Out and In v.2--Roon flickering (very much WIP)
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-29 2:31 am 

Joined: 2010-Apr-16 6:59 am
Age: Drake
Location: Freemont, NE (Omaha area) USA
Since you are running Glen Elendra Archmage have you also considered running Melira, Sylvok Outcast? This combo doesn't hit creatures, but does a good job of locking most everything else down. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir also helpls in such an environment.

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 Post subject: Re: Out and In v.2--Roon flickering (very much WIP)
AgePosted: 2017-Oct-31 8:53 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Didn't see anything in Ixalan that I could fit in (no surprise, since this isn't a tribal deck). Still, some edits dealing with fitting in another Torpor Orb contingency (I think I have enough now) and adjusting the mana curve.

OUT:
Island*1 (I finally realized I should count Halimar Depths and Minamo for determining land balance)
Cloudblazer (only because I had too many CMC5 cards)
Cloudstone Curio
Farhaven Elf
Icefall Regent
Skyshroud Claim
Sword of Light and Shadow
Windbrisk Heights
Words of Wind

IN:
Plains*1
Ancient Ziggurat
Angel of Condemnation
Azorius Justiciar (believe it or not, this is Cloudblazer's replacement; there wasn't much in the CMC4 slot that interested me...besides this, that is)
Dungeon Geists
Ondu Giant
Sunken Hope (more expensive than Words of Wind to initially cast, but leaves your draw alone and slightly narrows enemy choices. This came before I worried about the mana curve, for the record.)
Sylvan Reclamation
Wood Elves


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